November
2005
Community Solutions Building:
Commercial Salmon Fishermen
Meeting #1
November 22, 2005
Tlell Firehall, 12 noon - 6 pm
Host: Lynn Lee, Haida Gwaii Marine
Matters
Facilitator: John Farrell
Note Taker: Catherine Rigg
Disclaimer: Please
note that this is a paraphrased record of events. Any misrepresentation
in participants’ comments, questions, and/or responses is
unintentional.

Minutes of Meeting
Commercial fishermen have had three good years for
coho and spring in the north. In the spring fishery, the fish were
large early on in the season, but the fishing was spot-specific (where
there was upwelling and feed) and the writing was on the wall by May. I
run a freezer troller and an ice boat during the winter – at
that time you can get $6/lb instead of $3/lb because there is no other
opening and a demand from the California market. Most local boats are
freezer trollers. There is a huge variety in wild fish (in terms of
colour and texture), and sometimes the fresh fish are not as good as
frozen fish. Often you get 25% pink, 10% white, and the rest red. With
fresh fish – they will last around 4 days on an ice boat.
This makes timelines much tighter and you have to come in even if the
fishing isn't great to offload what you have. When I did the charter
(200 fish for the test fishery), I decided to go fresh and try and get
them in three days because I'll get $4/lb as opposed to $3/lb, but it's
a gamble.
When I spoke to an ex-troller in Masset, he said
he had been involved in meetings and talking about these issues for
over 25 years (including being involved with the QCI Fisheries Advisory
Board). People are tired of talking and want some action. The idea
behind these meetings is to generate something that works from the
ground up –the next steps should be identified and then taken
by the people living on the Island. The local people who are still
involved in the commercial fishery are fewer and fewer and once those
licenses are retired, no one will be fishing from the Islands.
- There will be no one with the capability and
expertise.
- It is unfeasible for someone like me to enter
the fishery when you consider the cost of specific fishing licenses and
equipment. Ten years ago it might have been feasible, but now it is
financially impossible. The expense means that younger people are not
entering the commercial fishing sector and this creates a knowledge
gap.
- There are always people, however, willing to
start new fisheries and people are moving around within the commercial
sectors (for example, crabbers have a good season and buy salmon
boats).
- Even though it is difficult, it is still
possible that I would end up commercial fishing. For example, I went
crab fishing this summer for the first time. Previously I had only
fished halibut, salmon, cod and tuna.
- You never know with fishing – the
variables change all the time. Who would have guessed that spring
salmon fishing would come back like it has?
- The older guys in the fishery have the luxury
of choosing when and how much they want to fish. They own their
license(s), boats and equipment. They can do two months of fishing
– or even a couple of weeks – without too much
pain. The new guys, however, have to fish multiple species all year
round, all over the coast. Younger fishers are fishing halibut and
crab, and many long-time fishers are fishing tuna, rockcod, and
long-lining halibut. They have a large amount of money invested and
have to work hard to stay in the industry.
Who is funding this meeting?
- This work is funded by WWF. I work as their
local coordinator. WWF has made a commitment to work with communities
to build solutions that are appropriate to the people who live there.
Can we still troll off Burnaby Island ? What about
the Park?
- You can still troll there, just not in the
Rockfish Conservation Area. The Marine Conservation Area is not
designated yet.
The basic idea is to have a marine plan
– with maps – that everyone buys into.
- At least getting as many local people as
possible to buy into a plan.
- Try to get concensus.
What is working now, in terms of the commercial
fishery? What's the good news?
- The number of boats around the island
(trollers) is about where it should be. There used to be 600 and it
went down to 250. Now we are at around 150 -160 licenses. Essentially
there are not a lot of boats left in the industry, and that's a good
thing. Albion has also made a commitment to the islands –
they have cod and salmon licenses and they recently bought a local
fisher's tuna. Small processing is important here, and in addition to
Albion there is Seapak in Masset, local processing of hundreds of
thousands of pounds of dogfish (Omega), and a smoking facility may move
into the former All West Glass building. It is a money issue
– it is hard for fishermen to buy quota, so processors are
starting to buy quota and then get people to fish it for them. They buy
it and then they put it on a fisherman's license. For example, this is
what Albion did last year. Aero does too, but then you have to deliver
in Prince Rupert.
It cost thousands of dollars more to catch the
same number of fish this year as we did in previous years because of
the quota situation. It used to be that if you put the effort in you
got rewarded. Now everybody wants equal access to reap the rewards.
- Nobody wanted quota. It was supposedly a one
year experiment.
- Now the re-pick is coming up. Area F has become
more attractive for salmon, and that's why the guys down south want to
go with quota.
Are they limiting the number of boats?
- No. DFO has essentially taken the approach that
“the smaller the fleet, the smaller the area you are given to
work in.”
- DFO policy has taken away local spots from the
local fishery. Access has been reduced due to DFO's concern about West
Coast Vancouver Island (WCVI) stocks.
In terms of other things that are working
– the fish are now better quality (vs. during the derby
fishery). We've also had three good years and fishing is generally
safer than it was. The problem is that things change so fast in the
industry. Everything that is good could entirely change just because of
one new regulation. And during this last season the largest and best
fish were caught in the first few days and then the fishing fell off
– so if you weren't able to be out at that time you missed
out.
Would it work to say “This is an area
that should support X number of boats” – cap the
number of licenses, and give local boats first dibs on those licenses?
- The trouble is they are trying to build the
quota system based on the history of the halibut fishery. People also
have a vested interest in an ‘equal split' approach
– they've bought small licenses and stacked them, and that's
why they are pushing for quota.
- Now we are considered small boats in the
industry (in terms of physical size). It is the catch history that
should matter, not the size of the boat, but they use both to determine
quota. The other problem is that the years have been so variable in
terms of catch. At the moment there are three fishing areas: the Gulf,
WCVI, and the north. You need different licenses to fish north and
south.
- There are far more boats down south.
- There are more than 200 in Area G (WCVI), and
more than 400 in Area H (Gulf). The people fishing in these areas want
coast-wide allocation.
- In the halibut fishery, quota has essentially
turned into a commodity – you can buy pounds so long as you
can transfer it to a boat with a license. Quota is often owned by
investors in the States. The quota is being leased to fish companies
and then re-leased to fisherman for around a $1/lb. You can just fish
it for that amount.
- It costs around $90,000 to get a boat (license)
with minimum allocation.
Isn't that a matter of ensuring there are
owner/operator clauses? That was recommended for the halibut fishery
but DFO didn't listen.
- There are ways to legally get around
owner/operator clauses. Herring was like that originally, but fishermen
found ways to get around it. For example, if a fisherman died the quota
would go to his wife, and then she could sell it.
- It shouldn't be like that – the Crown
should be able to buy it back if the owner/operator dies or quits.
- I had a herring license – I paid my
dues and then sold for $150,000. It was a gamble, and I did well. What
has to be understood is that fishermen don't have retirement plans. The
boat and license should be worth something because that's the only
thing you can sell when you retire. It would be very difficult to
change the system now.
- But 30 years ago when you bought your license,
did you have that expectation?
- The attitude in the industry has changed now.
What do we want in terms of licensing here?
- The issue is who controls the quota. We are in
a unique situation because of the Gwaii Trust. Gwaii Trust should be
investing in halibut quota because out of all the fisheries, it is a
relatively stable one. Then we can argue about who actually fishes
here. The most important issue is quota control. Right now it is all
individual – if we manage to get quota for the islands it
will then become a community issue and that will involve all sorts of
other problems.
How would it work?
- You would lease it, perhaps through a lottery
system. You would also have to put your own money into it (secure a
boat etc.).
- The CHN does that already.
- It should also be performance-based and there
should be residency requirements.
- In terms of performance, the quota could be
re-allocated to you for X number of years based on your first year's
performance. That's a problem with the CHN allocation – it is
a year-to-year allocation and there is no stability or security.
Could you develop a Terms of Reference for
performance criteria?
- First you absolutely must have secure
allocation. At the moment the recreational allocation is increasing
every year. The commercial guys have to have a secure allocation that
we can count on, first and foremost.
- I agree – we need to secure the TAC
in fisheries. It could work inherently, if all the players were equal.
But the problem is that it is not that way. The commercial troll fleet
has no voice, recreational power is increasing, and First Nations power
is increasing.
- The problem is that nothing is guaranteed
– look at how abalone licenses lost their value overnight.
So people who hold licenses now should be
compensated at fair market value, but does it have to be this way for a
new re-organized fishery?
- I paid $35,000 for licenses – now
that is my retirement fund.
- Halibut licenses have also fluctuated in value.
My dad sold when they were higher than they had ever been before, but
they've just kept going up in value. You never know.
What about a community license?
- I like the Gwaii Trust idea. It is island-wide
(vs. individual communities).
- Sorry, that's what I meant – the
island community.
- But we also have to remember that there are
people from down south who have fished this area longer than me. Our
advantage is local knowledge and we don't have to pay the fuel in
transportation costs.
- We'd need a board to set it up.
- Gwaii Trust would be hands-off.
- The fishing in Haida Gwaii waters is good:
almost all halibut fishing (70%) is off the coast of Haida Gwaii and
groundfish are at about 50%.
How do you resolve the
community/recreational/First Nations allocation issue?
- Gwaii Trust would buy quota for this area
alone. The allocation issue will be dealt with at a much higher level.
- There is now talk about doing away with
licenses and focusing entirely on quota. This appeals because of the
hard numbers that come with quota. At the moment, the TAC is divvied up
between the commercial, recreational and First Nations sector. With
quota you can assign allocation by percentages to whoever picks up the
quota. DFO is trying to simplify things to make their job easier. They
are not doing anything to improve things for fisherman – this
is for them. I will have to retire early if things don't change
– not because there's no fish, but because of the issue of
access.
- DFO doesn't want to manage or be responsible
– you can see that just by looking at the halibut and
shellfish fisheries. Admittedly, those fisheries have been fairly
successful though.
- Except that there is no halibut quota on the
island anymore. DFO has to set percentages. They've got to cap
recreational numbers – every year they are adding rooms and
extending the season on both ends. They are constantly increasing
capacity and they don't have a cap. Whatever they report each year
carries over to the following year and their allocation keeps
increasing.
- It is possible that you could use the quota
system to get an allocation for the Islands ' community.
What's the target for quota? What do we need here?
- If there is money to be made, people would buy
in and invest.
- Think about where it fits into the Gwaii Trust
– Gwaii Trust can fund infrastructure. The Coast
Sustainability Trust (CST) also has $3.5 million that needs to be spent
on-island before March 31, 2007, and it is fairly easy money to access.
You could use that as leverage money and go to the Gwaii Trust and ask
for X amount to be matched with the CST. You also have to consider that
Gwaii Trust and the Coast Sustainability Trust are both non-profit.
How many fish does a local boat need?
- We've had around 2200 spring/year for the last
three to four years. Before that it was all over the board because it
was more of a ‘mixed fishery.'
- So 2000 pieces/boat for 10 to 15
boats…we could calculate based on that and go from there.
The CHN have started talking about the mosquito
fleet again, and could possibly get a block of quota for the mosquito
fleet. The CHN could secure the quota, and then the fishery could be
managed on-island instead of DFO management.
- How many boats are there on-island that could
participate as a pilot project?
- It is important to know that a couple of
hundred fish could make a difference in a season. We also have to
consider ‘who' – what would be the requirements?
Would you have to live here? Would you need experience?
- That could be worked out in a Terms of
Reference.
- Remember it costs over $90,000 to get a
barebones license with minimum quota in the halibut fishery. It is out
of control, it's so expensive. Salmon are cheap now, but people figure
it will go like halibut if we go to quota.
- We need a stable number of fish to be supplied
to the islands and to the local fresh fish market (eg. Albion ,
Seapak). This could be a selling point with Gwaii Trust.
- There is also the informal economy to consider.
- You need full certification, especially if you
want to export internationally (for example, Albion farms out the
smoking to a certified smoker). There are different regulations for BC.
Is it worth pursuing the Gwaii Trust angle?
- You would need to start by creating a
‘commission' (non-profit under the BC Society's Act). The
role of this entity would be to facilitate quota – it would
have to be non-profit.
- Any profit could go back into buying more
quota.
- You have to make it flexible because otherwise
it sounds like more bureaucracy and red tape. First you need to deal
with the allocation issue. There should be an 80/20 (%) allocation
after First Nations.
- Sportfishers are now up to almost 40%.
- The halibut fishery is now almost entirely
American, even though an ‘international' organization sets
the halibut quota.
- Canada did get 10% in the beginning.
- It is the same with the Pacific Salmon Treaty
– we don't know the numbers, what we need is a percentage of
the total. This has to be set for both the sporties and the commercial
guys.
Many of these decisions will be made in Ottawa
– what can we do? “A small percentage of a
negligible amount won't help us” – is that true?
- Just look at the Columbia River this year.
- If this goes to complete quota –
regardless if it is northern quota or coast-wide quota – they
will probably set it pretty low and then add to it each year depending
on the stock. That's what they did with halibut.
- Right now they've set up a “coast
group” but northern fishermen are not represented. There's
also an allocation board, and they're talking about doing away with
area licensing. They are saying that there should be an even playing
field – which essentially means that everyone should starve.
We are trying to slow the process down because with each step we lose
more. We are fortunate at the point because you can still make a living
fishing in the north.
- The buy-back is just now starting to work in
the north and DFO proposes a re-pick. That is going to do nothing but
add boats to the north. There will probably be less fish next year
– more boats fishing fewer fish.
- We are also being saddled in observation fees
and fuel costs.
- Fish are counted four times – I
count, Archipelago counts, the company counts, and J.O. Thomas gets an
offload count. It's ridiculous.
What does “being flexible”
mean?
- You would want a couple of people on the board
who would make smart business decisions about when to buy quota and who
gets the quota. Maybe we could set up a fund so that we don't buy quota
outright but buy it at the right time. For example, you can buy gulf
licenses cheaply, stack them, and then transfer them to the north. This
is what the smart guys are doing – they are flipping licenses
in one year for a huge profit. You would also need ‘survival
guys' – people with fishing smarts. If you put money in a
fund, you can allocate money for communal fishing on QCI and buy some
licenses. There should be a couple of fishermen and a couple of
business types. Just be careful and don't write a bunch of rules.
- Don't you want to have rules and a Terms of
Reference so that it doesn't become political?
- There are so many uncertainties – the
salmon fishery might not go quota, or you might want to get into mixed
fisheries instead.
Can we look down the road and say ‘this
is what we want'?
- I'd like to see small open fisheries. For
example, open Hecate Strait to a spring fishery in May and give 2000
pieces out of 160,000. That would employ 5 guys out of Skidegate for
three weeks. This is similar to our little winter fishery which used to
be 10,000 pieces and is now down to 3,000 because of WCVI concerns (the
Cape has been closed because of WCVI stock politics). There are windows
where there are local stocks going by that they couldn't open the
entire fleet to, but could open locally. This year, however, it looks
like we won't have a winter fishery.
- Now it is actually open and we could catch
200-300 fish but that number would come off the quota for next year.
- DFO actually supports these ideas, but it all
comes down to allocation: how much of the total can you allocate to
small open fisheries? It is possible to target stocks that aren't being
hit. The Area Manager does have the power to do it (for example,
openings in Cumshewa).
- DFO is losing managers. New people are scared
to death of opening commercial fisheries because they are afraid they
will make a mistake, so they take the easy way out. Look at the Cultus
Lake fishery – they were trying to protect 341 fish and they
shut down a $3 million fishery when the problem was probably the lake
itself, not the fishery.
- The DFO science budget is also miniscule.
Fisheries are shut down all the time based on very few data points.
There is no consistency in the industry and therefore it is hard to
treat it like a business.
- Now the WCVI stocks are coming back and they
are running out of that excuse. We fished right through this year and
the world didn't end.
Maybe we need money in a research fund to do our
own sampling?
- There is a lot of distrust of DFO samples and
science. All the fish for sampling purposes are caught in a few days
and very few fish are actually sampled. This means questionable data.
- In Kano Inlet apparently they sampled more than
30% but there was a problem with the analysis of samples.
- A few years ago in the salmon fishery 27 fish
were sampled and 3 were determined to be WCVI and they shut the fishery
down based on 3 fish.
- There was a 16% report off of Hippa and they
shut it down. Two weeks later they discovered there was a mistake and
it was meant to be 1.6% so they re-opened the fishery.
- There is little information on catch of local
populations. We need to know what's going on here with respect to fish
stocks. We need locally collected data and monitoring, and we need more
confidence in the information on which we base decisions.
- If you are not out there fishing, you don't
know what's going on. Most Island guys are interested in doing a 200
fish monitoring fishery. Test fisheries can tell you size, abundance,
and proportion of stocks – but you can't just give them to
QCI fishermen.
- We need to put a program in place and then ask
for letters of interest. We could apply for a local test fishery (for
five local boats) and get funded to do it. If the community came up
with the money to do samples, you could do it independently.
- The problem is that some fishermen can't even
pay dues.
- The money has to come from somewhere.
- DFO only wants information that supports what
they want to do.
How can we fund research and monitoring?
- Argument to be made through SMFRA because of
the impact of logging on fish streams.
- The problem is that there are very few of the
fish that are caught are local.
- But the stocks are collapsing in Skidegate
Inlet. With wild smolts we could fin clip in Skidegate Inlet and see
where they are being picked up. Someone should try and figure out
what's happening. Chums have collapsed in Skidegate Inlet, pinks are on
a downward slide, and coho have been totally hit.
- The Deena has some information.
- The patrol program has fallen to pieces.
- Could this be funded through SMFRA?
- You could make an argument about the
fish-forest interaction.
- The patrol program is also land-based
– work would be done on the Islands.
- There has to be a monitoring system in place.
There was 20 years worth of data – and then nothing, which
makes the data useless.
- This year we lost July and they moved us to
August when local stocks started showing up so we began targeting our
own fish. When you look at the coho escapements for the mainland
– they are full of fish. They have record escapements and are
closed. The stocks are collapsing here and we're still fishing. DFO
have said that the mainland side of Area F is closed.
Who would do it and when?
- Smolt tagging and clipping would have to be
done in April and May. We could also do coded wire tagging, and charter
patrol contracts happen in the fall.
- Hecate Strait Streamkeepers could do some of
the work.
- The Tlell Watershed Society could also
contribute.
- The problem is that SMFRA funding starts
flowing in May at the earliest (decisions aren't made until mid-April).
- We could apply to do the charter patrol in the
fall and start the other work the following spring.
- It is an issue of dates – you can't
get money for the following April or May because it is past the end of
the fiscal year. There is no flexibility with the provincial government
in control of SMFRA, although we are working to change that. You could
probably get charter patrol money, and Gwaii Trust might be able to
come through on other things because SMFRA couldn't fund tagging and
clipping (Gwaii Trust is more likely to fund something that SMFRA
cannot). Basically, you would have to make the argument “we
can't control fisheries because outsiders control the science so we
need to take control of the science.” Then you could go to
the CST for infrastructure money.
- WWF could also partner with local groups and
organizations.
- My advice to fishermen at the moment is to get
another job. I'm not interested in doing streamkeepers work –
I want to fish.
- Some people are interested though, and it is a
good job for the right person.
- Carl is essentially saying that research is one
issue but it isn't dealing with the fishery issues directly. I can
commit to talking to Hecate Strait Streamkeepers and the Watershed
Society about research options.
What is WWF's position on sport fishing lodges?
- There isn't one. WWF has focused on stock
condition. We also have committed to work with communities to find
solutions that work for local people.
- The sport lodges are filled with executives on
weekend trips.
- Next week I'm meeting with local recreational
fisheries and will discuss the issues of ‘code of conduct'
and what the industry can do to address catch and release concerns.
- The problem is that they have an allocation but
no cap on that allocation. The extent of their impact on the stocks is
also unknown.
- There is creel survey data, but there is a
question of accuracy there. People are now at the dock recording catch
at some (but not all) of the lodges, and they only record definite
mortality. Individuals should be required to report their catch.
- They need to make as much of an effort
collecting recreational catch data as with the commercial fleet.
- This seems to be a process issue –
maybe there needs to be mandatory catch reporting by individuals with
repercussions/penalties.
Is there high-grading now with the quota system?
- There is some dumping, but not a lot.
- There is no time to high-grade. With the cost
of fuel, you can't afford it.
- There is a significant value difference between
white and red spring and so once you've cut the fish open and know what
it is, people do dump the white spring.
- I brought white spring in under the First
Nations food fishery – that's the way I got around it. Most
of the white spring are around early and gone by July.
[BREAK: Explanation about the WWF information
provided to participants. Comment that the RCA around Frederick Island
was a good location because there are a lot of rock reefs and rockfish
in the area.]
What the island needs is a freezer facility and a
certified smoker. We need to maximize local dollars and make an extra
dollar for every pound of fish. Isabel Creek is now selling local fish
– we need to continue in this direction.
- The mosquito fleet could supply the local
market with fresh fish and legally supply local restaurants.
- It would obviously be seasonal.
- You could freeze fish for later using a
commercial freezer.
- True – you should freeze halibut, and
fish for the sushi market should always be frozen first.
There is also the issue of branding –
there is an opportunity to market fish from the ‘Queen
Charlotte Islands/Haida Gwaii.'
- People see this place as wild and unpolluted.
- Albion is currently looking into the branding
issue.
- You can charge more money for QCI fish
– people are willing to pay (gave example of fair in
Vancouver ) and it is already happening.
- Maybe the large processors should get together
and consider branding.
Omega hasn't bought salmon in years and Seapak
primarily buys it from Albion. You can sell to Albion and, to a lesser
extent, to CBIsland (who supply it to the smokers). The big processing
problem on the islands is that there is not enough freezer space.
- What we need is community cold storage where
you can rent space.
- Someone who owns the reefer trucks (located
next to Crabapple Creek) is talking about organizing a freezer/cold
storage plant in QCC, and he is currently doing some contracting for
the lodges. He would also use his reefer trucks to ship to Vancouver.
- Could this be a Coast Sustainability Trust
infrastructure item?
- If someone is already trying to make it happen,
then you might want to wait and see.
What about stipulations to sell to local
processors?
- You need a provincial (fishing) license
– fish have to be declared under the license and then
validated to be sold to local processors. Albion meets us as the dock.
- Where do you sell your fish?
- I want to catch fish, not sell them. When I
arrive at the dock, I want to shut my boat down and clean it off. I
sell to a company that I believe in – one that will give me
the biggest bonus, and one that I trust. Albion essentially owns us
that way – they are a good company and we are in a very lucky
situation. Albion is the best friend commercial fishermen have got.
- With an ice boat you only have a limited amount
of time. With freezing you have more options. Regardless, it is
convenient to deliver to Charlotte. Albion has adopted a
“closer to the source” approach to market their
fish. They are now buying directly more and more fish to process
– not only from fishermen but also from Aero and from farms.
Albion would probably like to get more fish and on QCI land is cheap so
there is opportunity for expansion.
- At the moment they are sending fish to St. Jean
's in Nanaimo for smoking.
- Albion also process, fillet and vacuum-pack
fish for the recreational fishery. Seapak is at capacity. There is also
a real difference between domestic and export regulations. Smoking
fish, for example, could be really problematic for “mom and
pop” operations – German tourists were doing
smoking and selling fish at home to offset the costs of their holiday
and people became sick. The end result was that tourism dropped off.
What about the issue of the commercial fishermen
losing ground to the recreational fishery?
- There seems to be two issues: (1) allocation,
and (2) ribbon boundaries.
- There is less antagonism now. We all realize
that they are here to stay. They have a lot invested now so they will
talk to us, but really there is no incentive to come to the table. Why
would they? They have everything at the moment, and talking would just
mean they'd lose something. The bottom line is that there has to be
enough allocation to keep the commercial fishery alive. That needs to
be a priority.
- We are near a saturation point at the north
end.
- They should be allocated a number of boat
days/lodge – they can sort it out themselves. They need a
percentage allocation that is capped. And then there is the question of
whether or not quota is for sale. Allocation shouldn't be for sale
– we need to have set percentages for each, maybe a 70/30
split? Ultimately, what's good for the fish? Fishermen want to be
fishing in 10 years. In the past people were greedy but those people
were the first to leave. Now that the local fisheries are making money,
we have the greedy guys coming back. They are “in and
out” – leaving no money behind on the island.
- The industry has driven people to that approach
– nowadays people need to fish multiple species for at least
8 months of the year. The people who were left after the buy-back were
the ones who owned the boats. New guys were squeezed out.
- The local guys have managed to survive.
- You never know what's around the corner. Four
years ago we were not fishing at all, and now we've had a few good
years but the fishing may start declining again. It is possible we've
already hit the peak.
- It really is living year-to year in the
commercial fishery.
- The only people who are complaining in the
sport fishing industry are the new guys on the block, like the guys in
Tasu and Englefield. They are the ones who complain about the
commercial fishery, and they give huge amounts of pro-sport fishing
propaganda to their guests. When there were the Kootenay and Cape
Flattery openings, they complained bitterly to DFO. Oak Bay Marine
Group stated publicly that they wanted commercial fishermen off the
water. Now everything below Hippa is closed. When they moved the line,
it was only down to Chad Point because Tasu was still operating. The
ribbon boundary at the top end is essentially the start for the
management of 2W. There are now no coho in Tasu, and they are blaming
the commercial guys. But there has been no fishing on the west coast
for coho – except a few fish caught north of Frederick.
Essentially they've fished the coho out of Tasu. Look at the catch
statistics (DFO should have them) – get the numbers and see.
Charter patrolmen go out and collect the information every year, and in
the first couple of years they caught thousands.
What about zoning?
- We essentially have that now but the commercial
zone is getting smaller and smaller.
- So you need zones that work for the commercial
fishery?
- At the moment commercial tacks are running into
the sports guys. It is all mixed up.
- There is also the issue of timing –
at the moment there is nothing for us until August. There are no fish
at Tian anymore, and because of the concentration of lodge ownership
the lodges are able to move boats around to where the fish are.
- Oak Bay is probably the biggest group, followed
by West Coast Fishing Club.
- At the moment the ribbon boundaries are working
out alright in the north, but they haven't worked down south (Tasu).
With the quota system, we've pretty much given up Langara (off the
lighthouse). Nowadays, sportfishers will go for miles offshore and will
end up in the middle of the commercial fleet. Some of those guys are
there specifically to cause trouble for us.
- You can see the guys who are willing to move
– the guided boats who respect our need to stay on a tack.
Some absolutely refuse to move though, and there is a need for a Code
of Conduct.
- Many of the guys who don't respect the
commercial boats are unguided. They should not allow unguided boats.
- It seems to me that there is a problem with the
way zoning works right now – it is a “one guy
out” approach (the commercial fleet) versus zoning for both
recreational and commercial use. Maybe that needs to change because the
sportfishers are eventually going to be forced to admit they can't
expand forever.
- It is important to put it down on paper and
state “this is what we want.” That will provide a
starting point and forces discussion.
- We've already seen our area whittled down. With
the quota system this year, some of those areas have actually been
opened back up.
- That is the bait to get the commercial fishery
to support quota.
- The reality is that old deckhands are now
working at fishing camps – and they know where the fish are.
- Are there some areas that are “more
commercial”?
- The sportfishers will fish in almost anything
the commercial guys do. Weather doesn't seem to be a problem for them.
It has gotten to the point where I actually listen to the radio to see
where they are fishing.
- Just by using language such as
“management zones,” it pushes the idea that there
needs to be management of recreational zones. Language is important and
can change the mentality.
- Statements need to be made – it is a
matter of who is going to make the statement. It is important to be
proactive because change is already happening. People are afraid to
draw lines on a map but if we don't do it ourselves, someone else will
force us to go by their rules.
My suggestion is to look at the near future. Focus
on next year and get something together that we can all get behind to
enhance the commercial fishery in the immediate future, as well as into
the future. For example, let's keep the winter fishery open. We need to
spread out fishing over the seasons because concentrating fishing in
one month is not good for stocks. At the moment we are closed down once
the sportfishers are opened and ribbon boundaries are established
– usually around May 1 st or 15 th , after which the beach is
essentially cut off for us. We are open in the winter because
sportfishers are not there. The ribbon boundary just keeps growing too
– it's almost reached Tow Hill and it is likely to start
expanding on the west coast. With quota there should be a set TAC and
more areas should be open.
- What's stopping you from fishing in the winter
fishery?
- Nothing technically, except the weather. It is
open right now. The problem is that the guys down south are pushing
hard for quota and any fish we take will come off next year's quota.
- They don't want 5% of the quota being caught by
30 boats.
- There should be a special winter fishery with a
separate quota.
- Which was the way it was before – it
is an allocation issue because it still comes off the TAC. September
and early spring fisheries have saved the local guys in recent years
because no one else shows up to fish.
- Are you saying there should be an allocation
for a winter fishery that's not tied to quota and comes off the TAC?
- The winter fishery allocation used to be 10,000
but last year it was down to 3,000. The guys down south are the main
opposition to the September to April fishery because they don't want to
have to travel up north to fish during the winter. But if it goes to
coast-wide quota, there wouldn't be any opposition from them. Now they
don't want it because it comes off the TAC.
- You pretty much need to increase the quota to
help the north. But the commercial guys are last in terms of priority.
The recreational fishery is first, apparently based on economic studies
that show that the sportfishers make more money for Canada. They don't
consider catch and release or local communities though.
- One option would be to limit recreational
access to spring salmon. They could still catch halibut, lingcod and
coho. That way there would be enough fish for everyone. Also, some
lodges let their guests sign up for a “catch and
release” option where the lodge buys fish from the commercial
fishery and lets people take home fish that he's bought (if they
release the ones they actually catch).
DFO policy at the moment prioritizes full
recreational openings before commercial openings based on the number of
fish of each species that can be taken per day. How does that fit with
the allocation issue?
- They want to put a hard number on springs
because of the (Pacific Salmon) Treaty. All other species are
abundance-based. The commercial fishery should be guaranteed a
percentage of the TAC. Now we are just getting whatever the
sportfishers don't get – the “leftovers.”
If we pick up 50 more boats in the re-pick and the TAC goes down, then
we will have a huge problem here.
How do they decide on numbers for Area F vs. Gulf
vs. WCVI?
- It is stock-based.
- At the moment it is 240,000 for Area F, but
that number can change in-season too. Of course, it only ever goes down
in-season. I've never seen it go up even when indicators suggest
incredible increases in historical abundance.
Is there an argument to limit fish licenses in
Area F?
- Yes. The buy-back is just now becoming viable
in the north and now they are allowing a re-pick. It is ridiculous. My
understanding is that meetings are happening now and the re-pick could
possibly happen this winter.
- They limited licenses in the herring fishery
– you needed 2 licenses to fish one net. That's how they
pooled the herring fishery.
- How does an additional 50 boats compare to the
number that was here before?
- The fishery has changed since that time. Now
there are major restraints and we are under a piece constraint as well
(used to be shotgun openings).
- I think a new system is inevitable –
the shotgun fisheries had all sorts of problems.
So quota could be a good thing – now the
question is how do you make it work for you?
- For quota to work, you need to do three things:
(1) you have to get a commercial allocation, (2) a community quota, and
(3) you have to limit the number of boats. Now they are hoping to move
boats from down south back up north – but when those boats
originally left the north, they took the sockeye fishery with them.
Sockeye became a terminal fishery and was poorly managed, runs were
late and so on. Now they've had a series of bad years - it's not
working for them – and they want to come back. DFO have had
to deal with all sorts of protests in the south. Not only has the
sockeye fishery been a disaster, the commercial guys have also been
reduced to little openings for springs, and they've lost the coho
fishery to the sporties. In the north, the fisheries are generally
cleaner.
Gwaii Trust money is for Islanders –
would it be possible to lease more quota to offset the increased number
of people coming up from the South?
- There is also the case to be made for the
winter fishery.
- The problem is that they don't even want to
give up a single fish from the TAC – not even 3,000 of
170,000.
- But if it goes to quota, then that's not an
issue. Local quota would also give local fisherman an edge.
- They are also talking about shifting from boat
licenses to personal licenses. This would turn quota into a commodity.
Halibut quota is hugely valuable these days because you can lease it,
and leasing inflates the value.
Allocation seems to be the answer for the winter
fishery, mosquito fleet, and as a possible solution to the arrival of
new boats on site.
- The halibut fishery is relatively stable, and
spring salmon is more volatile. The problem is that the TAC for spring
salmon could change radically.
- So after the fishery changes to quota, the
fishermen will have quota and you could buy it from them?
- Example of someone who has a fish processing
plant down south as well as owning licenses and boats. He basically has
a monopoly so he can sit on spots and fish for his plant. That's what
you need – a monopoly. You need to control the entire chain.
He is trying to add value to fish – he custom smokes for a
niche market.
- He has stacked licenses.
- He might be a good advisor for the board.
- We are his competition though.
- People on the board need to have the interest
of the commercial fishery as a whole in mind.
- Adding value to salmon is a positive thing.
Quota could be good because it means we can work through the seasons.
Halibut are managed by weight, whereas salmon are by numbers (which
isn't a good thing).
- Isn't it really a question of being proactive
instead of reactive?
- If there is a lesson, it is that he bought
quota early and cheap.
- Owning the resource is the bottom line
– look at black cod and halibut.
- So it is about accessing money – and
we do have opportunities here.
My hope is in the Haida. We need to be right
onside with them – they are good friends to the commercial
fishery and they have access to quota.
- They have five salmon licenses and, if they
don't fish them, they lease them out. It was a bit of a fiasco this
year though and Masset ended up sub-leasing.
- Theoretically, it is a good system.
- The key is to keep adding value to local fish
through processing plants, smokers etc.
- We need some local cooperation with boats to
get fresh fish all at one time so that it can be transported out
together and be economically viable.
Who does this? The money is there, we just need a
body to pitch it and put together the next steps, including policies
and Terms of Reference.
- Look for people who have a vested interest in
the industry (eg. Albion and fishermen).
- Now you need licenses – someone has
to own licenses. The Haida have licenses.
- So the group needs to start buying.
- It boils down to who is going to control the
fishery. The halibut fishery is a good example of a fishery moving out
beyond anyone's league. Salmon will probably follow – but for
how long when you factor in the sportfishers? There needs to be a hard
allocation – a percentage for us and them.
- But you need to take the steps and move on it.
Even if you don't buy now, you could get ready to buy.
- It is important to understand that this is an
investment in the community – it is not a business
investment.
- It is a matter of being prepared to buy quota
when it goes to quota, which seems like the most likely scenario and
the most feasible option. Buying licenses now doesn't really make
sense.
- Gwaii Trust funds the building of social
capital – it doesn't necessarily have to be a profitable
business.
So are community-based licenses a good idea?
- Yes, it is a good idea that should be floated
to Gwaii Trust representatives.
- This might also be a license that allows local
fishermen to supply the local market with multiple species from a mixed
fishery.
- It is also important to have a pool available
to local people outside of the Haida community because the Haida
already have their own pool. Maybe it's a good idea to buy other
species quota and work into salmon when salmon quota becomes available.
For example, buy halibut. Right now it is about $34/lb with a minimum
of 1,600 lbs attached to a license. You could get around 10,000 lbs for
about $400,000. There is around a 5% guaranteed return on the
investment, and there are many people who fish halibut and salmon. The
community license idea should be put out to the public –
present it, get feedback, and form a body.
- You need to get people who are committed to the
local fishery and local market – people who have history in
the north.
- Are there examples elsewhere of community
licensing?
- In Alaska.
- Originally community licenses in Alaska were
issued to native bands for the pollock fishery, and then the program
was expanded. Some communities have been very successful –
especially those who got large pollock allocations to start with. They
were later able to expand into crab and other quota fisheries. Here on
the Islands , halibut is the most stable fishery but it would be a
long-term investment. You could also put community money into a joint
venture with Albion or another company (eg. for a cold storage
facility).
- Infrastructure money could come from SMFRA or
Gwaii Trust.
- There is interest in the north right now, and
funding opportunities come with that.
- It is important to build the commercial
industry up. We can start with shore-based employment because that
generates interest in the industry. That is what the sportfishers are
doing and their power is just increasing – they are starting
to invest in the community because it is benefiting them. There has to
be a point where we are happy with the level of employment that each
sector has reached. We have to start looking at how it can work best
for everyone. We could, for example, be processing more fish here
because that reduces the cost of shipping.
- Smoked fish in brine doesn't need to be frozen,
which also makes it easier and less expensive to ship.
- 80% of a fish is usable – Albion
ships whole fish, mainly within BC.
- I like the idea of a fund to buy up control of
a fishery, and I think you could aim for a percentage of every new
fishery and buy portions over the long-term. Squid, for example, could
have been a viable new fishery here last year.
So the next steps are: (1) look at other models of
community fisheries and how it is being done elsewhere, (2) put
together a proposal for funding to move the idea of buying quota
forward (the first proposal would be to generate interest, followed by
a second proposal to actually purchase quota), (3) address zoning and
caps with respect to the commercial and recreational fisheries.
- There is also the issue of enforcement. DFO is
not interested in enforcement – they are trying to get out of
managing fisheries. If there is no cap on the recreational fishery,
there will be no commercial fishery. On the other hand, the sporties
may soon be maxed out.
- The fourth step is to look at long-term
research opportunities.
- We should schedule another meeting in Tlell.
- Invite Albion as well – they should
be part of this discussion.
Meeting adjourned at 5: 45pm.
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